does anyone have any POA insignia, collar tabs and arm patch? repro ofcourse, and some info on the POA would be appreciated.

Sam

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Liberation_Army

Good starter for ten.

_________________
Radu Raduvich Himea
Yefreytor
Captain's Orderly

http://www.2ndguards.com/index.html


DEATHSPOON

Thats amazing Rob. I never realised that the POA existed or that so may soviets went over to the Germans.
They could have done some serious damage had they been cultivated and used properly.
Hitler had his blinkers on again!
I think I shall stick to the uniform I have got though.

_________________
Name: Robert Fillipovich Soodyarov
Rank: Yefreytor
Очын приатна - Эа вас !!
Drink Tea, Be Mellow !

I know a fair bit about them... and other Vlasovites too...

One word of warning if you want to put gear together for Osttruppen reenactment... a lot of the repro stuff sold for reenactment is total pony... and a lot of the "original" stuff for sale is also fake and/or rubbish.

I did a LOT of research on this subject a few years ago!

_________________
"Lenin left us a great legacy, and we have f*cked it up." I.V. Stalin, June 29, 1941

You will be better off making your insignia up. The quality and consistancy of original stuff is poor and the repro stuff is far too good. I'll bring some info up to Belvoir.

_________________
Guards Serjant Yevgeni Trubetskoi 2nd Gds rifle div

_________________
Semyon Yakovlevich Sorókin
Guardsman
2nd Guards Rifle Division

"The guts of the German army have been largely torn out by Russian valour and generalship." - Winston Churchill, speech to Parliament 1944

That is the Toddmeister's ROA reenactment group website

_________________
"Lenin left us a great legacy, and we have f*cked it up." I.V. Stalin, June 29, 1941

Hi Sam, I can tell you a fair bit about the unit. Talk to you at the weekend about them.

Here is an original embroidered armshield from my collection:

http://warrelics.eu/forum/german-third-reich-wehrmacht-luftwaffe-kreigsmarine-uniforms/789-russian-army-liberation-armshield.html

Martin and Andy are correct.

I had not seen Toddy's site before. The tunic he shows is a converted Dutch blouse. The pattern armshield I have is shown in a pic there in wear.

Checkout the War relics forum for some orignal colour footage shot in Czechoslovakia in 1945 showing the POA heading west.

Cheers, Ade.

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http://www.2ndguards.com/index.html

Adrian Borisovitch Stepanov
Guards Starshina
Unit 2 I/C

Bobhr wrote:

Thats amazing Rob. I never realised that the POA existed or that so may soviets went over to the Germans. They could have done some serious damage had they been cultivated and used properly. Hitler had his blinkers on again! I think I shall stick to the uniform I have got though.

I feel a little sympathy for some of the POA soldiers myself, truly the ginger stepdaughters of Hitler's armed forces. I imagine that a lot, probably most in fact, of the rank and file joined out of the grim choice of dying of neglect in a German POW camp and getting at least one square meal a day. I don't think anyone has the right to condemn them until they have had to face that grim choice.
They could have been incredibly effective, as a well-led Russian is one of the world's scarier fighting men. Let's be thankful that Adolf and more importantly Himmler was more attached to his racist bollo than they were to the real world.
I shall stick to this uniform, but the thought of converted Italian kit with POA badges and Russian equipment appeals to my inner obscurist...

_________________
Radu Raduvich Himea
Yefreytor
Captain's Orderly

http://www.2ndguards.com/index.html


DEATHSPOON

Would epic be a good choice? they do the arm patch, trident have some POA gear but I'm not to fond of trident

Hello Sam,
Somewhere I have a POA sleeve patch which you can have if I can find it,also I think there is an Osprey book called 'Germanys Eastern Front Allies' which may be of use if you can pick up a copy.

The best books on the Eastern Volunteers are the ones published by Axis Europa. There are some real gems of info in those - which considering the subject is one not written about much in the West and hushed up in the East, its about the best source you will find.

The most interesting volume is probably "Eastern Troops in Zealand 1944 ", got some lovely pictures in there!

_________________
"Lenin left us a great legacy, and we have f*cked it up." I.V. Stalin, June 29, 1941

I expect its a silly question but did any soldiers use the POA as a means to rejoin the RKKA?

I suppose they would have been executed though?

It will be interesting to see these POA uniforms evolving Sam and Rob.

PS Happy Anniversary Sam.
Good luck with the POA stuff.

_________________
Name: Robert Fillipovich Soodyarov
Rank: Yefreytor
Очын приатна - Эа вас !!
Drink Tea, Be Mellow !

Have you never read any memoirs of Soviet soldiers??

By Lenin those Vlasovites were hated!

Sure, becoming a POW didn't exactly leave you in a happy place, but joining the enemy as a combatant...

Maybe some thought it might be a route back to home, but that was never going happen!

_________________
"Lenin left us a great legacy, and we have f*cked it up." I.V. Stalin, June 29, 1941

I read "Tank Rider" and am reading about an Italian fighting with the Germans ("Few Returned" Eugino Corti).

Meanwhile I began reading one called Staff Officer (Sokolov I think)

I have come across little on this subject so far.

_________________
Name: Robert Fillipovich Soodyarov
Rank: Yefreytor
Очын приатна - Эа вас !!
Drink Tea, Be Mellow !

Bobhr wrote:

I read "Tank Rider" and am reading about an Italian fighting with the Germans ("Few Returned" Eugino Corti).

OT: THREAD SPAMMING IN PROGRESS - PURISTS PLEASE LOOK AWAY
Try 'Sergeant in the Snow' by Mario Rigoni Stern. He was one of the ALpini who formed the rearguard of VIIIth Army. Quite an interesting read.

_________________
Radu Raduvich Himea
Yefreytor
Captain's Orderly

http://www.2ndguards.com/index.html


DEATHSPOON

Bobhr wrote:

I expect its a silly question but did any soldiers use the POA as a means to rejoin the RKKA? I suppose they would have been executed though? It will be interesting to see these POA uniforms evolving Sam and Rob. PS Happy Anniversary Sam. Good luck with the POA stuff.

Bob, in Red Partisan (see reading thread in media section) the writer's partisan band actively try to recruit Russians who are working for the Germans as Polizei and Vlasovites. They even have informants in the Polizei who give them information, for example supply train timetables. For a short time they also have 2 Germans working in the camp doing manual labour. One of them is a bit of a comedian so the Russian's take a shine to him and let them both live. To me this said a lot about the Russian character condsidering what the partisans had suffered as POWs.
The Russians even find it funny how punctual the 2 germans insist on being in their work. It struck me that this kind of humour even in the blackest of moments is also a trait of the British, something we have in common perhaps.
In one episode a whole battalion of Polizei swap sides to the partisans.
However, it does not say what would happen to the Partisans who had previously helped the Germans once the NKVD arrived behind the advancing Red Army as the book ends when the writer is flown out of the partisan pocket.

_________________
Semyon Yakovlevich Sorókin
Guardsman
2nd Guards Rifle Division

"The guts of the German army have been largely torn out by Russian valour and generalship." - Winston Churchill, speech to Parliament 1944

Thanks Rob and Simon; it looks like through coincidence I have only read books that have not included this material.

Its good really because it means there is a whole lot more out there for me to learn.

I will follow up by noting the book list titles and buying a few.

I have a lot to read here at home though anyhow,: I have a biography of Stalin ,The Red Road from Stalingrad, Russias Generals , Russia "A complete History" , The Siege of Leningrad,Red Star under the Baltic, Soviet Staff Officer (By Krylov) and Alice in Wonderland in cyrillic !!

So I need to spend more time reading !

I really want to take in this other stuff though ; it sounds interesting.

_________________
Name: Robert Fillipovich Soodyarov
Rank: Yefreytor
Очын приатна - Эа вас !!
Drink Tea, Be Mellow !

For a bit of lighter reading and some serious Vlasovite hatred and murder, try "Commandos from the Sea - Soviet Naval Spetsnaz in WW2"

_________________
"Lenin left us a great legacy, and we have f*cked it up." I.V. Stalin, June 29, 1941

has anyone got any shoulder boards? I've already made the collar tabs