redarmylivinghistory

http://www.russian-victories.ru/russians.htm

Cheers, Ade.

Great link Ade,
Have only given it a quick look up to now,there some great pictures and some unpleasent ones as well.I will have to sit down for half an hour or so and read the lot.

Interesting link, if this is the voice of post-Soviet Russian Nationalism, then Ouch.

There is some funny post-Soviet stuff going on I have to say... I spend a lot of time chatting with various Russians and looking Russian media and there is a big shift to replacing "Soviet" with "Russian".

Now that might sound an obvious thing as the Soviet Union clearly does not exist today, but there is a subtle change underway to make out what is now "Russia" achieved everything the Soviet Union did, but at the same time not to ever refer to it as Soviet anything.

I get as cross with people doing that as I do to when people refer to us in our reenactments that we are "Russians", we are not, we are portraying Soviets.

Yes, I know "Soviet Culture" is by and large and continuation of the Tsarist "Russification program", but ethnic and national diversity existed in the Soviet Union and was guaranteed by its constitution!

That article also contains some nasty modern ultra right wing views, something else on the rise in Russia today sadly. I would have thought there was enough evidence of where that leads to make people think twice but clearly not.

Generally, I have much fondness in my heart for Russia and her people, but there are times when things surface I am none too comfortable with and my love is not blind!

Respect to all of you, Folks,

I have just found your most interesting forum and this thread discussing a page of my two websites. I hope you may be interested in visiting of some more webpages, out of many, at least these three:
http://www.russian-victories.ru/index.htm
http://www.great-victory1945.ru/index.htm
http://www.great-victory1945.ru/victory.htm

I am a Russian, my name is Michael Kuznetsov, I was born in Russia (or in the USSR if you wish, no difference) and have been living in Russia for all of my lifetime -- 58 years already. I am a former naval officer, retired.

I would be interested in a sober productive discussion, an interchange of opinions and ideas. I am ready to answer sincerely to ANY serious question, if any. In my turn, I would be happy to ask you a few questions, too, reciprocally.

So, if you, Comrade Kozlov, are in a mood to chat with me friendly, here is my first question: What do you mean using the terms "nasty modern ultra right wing views". What exactly? What do you think is wrong with my views?
No offence intended and non taken, I hope. Simply put, I would prefer concrete arguments and clear definitions, not hollow labellings, etc., if you please. Thank you.

My second question is: Comrade Kozlov, do you speak Russian? Or at least: Can you read Russian? I will explain later why I ask.

Best wishes from Russia

Michael,

Not sure this is the place really to get into heavy modern politics, so I ask you one question, how do you label your views? Yes, a label is just a few words, but where do you place yourself on the scale of things?

Sadly I do not speak Russian, I understand a little, would love to understand a lot more as much of what I read probably looses a lot even in good translation.

Maybe the two paragraphs above are one and the same problem, my interpretation of your views is hindered by our mutual language barrier

And one last serious question (and this one is probably relevant and interesting to our Comrades here), because I am serious in my interest, do you feel that the triumphs of which your website speak are Russian triumphs or Soviet ones? In Russia today are people ashamed to associate themselves with things achieved by the Soviets and want to relabel them? Is that the problem?

Thank you very much, Kozlov, for your prompt and very friendly reply!

I will answer you in every possible detail very soon, when come back home in a couple of hours, or so.

Shall I address you simply "Kozlov" or "Comrade Kozlov" or what? What would you prefer?

Warmest regards from Russia

Michael

Whatever you like Michael... you could even resort to "Andy"

Hi Michael, welcome to the forum! It was a real surprise to see that you have joined. I am sure we can learn a lot from one another.

Cheers, Ade.

Hi Andy and Ade,

I would "label" my views as Russian Patriotism.

You may, or may not, be surprised that we Russians feel our history as being one long and unbreakable continuity, of which we all - both living and departed - have been an unalienable part.

To illuminate my idea, I offer you this example. If you would ask whatever Russian in the street: "Who did win in the Kulikovskaya Battle (in A.D. 1380)?" - most likely he/she would respond: "We did!". Because this is just the way we Russians feel and think.

Another example. My family attend a local Russian Orthodox Cathedral that was built in 1580. If you would ask anyone of the parishioners about the magnificent building, it is most likely that he/she would respond proudly: We built it in 1580. WE! Not somebody, but WE!

My belief is that nations may be of two sorts: shaped and amorphous. The Russian nation is strongly shaped like a stone. You may wrap up a stone with whatever wrapper, the stone inside would retain its shape. The History may "wrap" the Russians either in an Imperial, or a Soviet, or a post-Soviet "wrapper" -- nevertheless, the Russians will be Russians, all the same.

We are absolutely the very same Russians in spirit as WE were hundreds years ago. Which is why we feel, for instance, the Borodinskaya Battle (1812) as if it would have happened yesterday.

We feel not ashamed of the Soviet past, nor of the Soviet achievements, when we use "Russian" instead of "Soviet". Why should we? For us the both words sound like one and the same. Almost! Simply put, it does not matter how to name, say the famous city on the Neva River. In Soviet times we would frequently -- unofficially of course -- called it "Peter", while the official name was Leningrad. Now that the city has the official name St Petersburg, we can easily call it Leningrad. No much difference for us because the city remains one and the same. And we feel our history as one continuity.

Is my explanation anyhow helpful?

Goodnight for now!

Hi Michael and thanks for what I thought was a beautifully expressed picture of Russians and Russia itself.
We all seek to represent a time and a group of people when Russians were under a severe threat to their very existence and identity ; and to see and feel that identity is one of the most difficult (if not impossible) tasks we can take on.
None of us can be Russian but what you have said helps us to understand what is the very essence of being a Russian.
Each country is unique ,and so are its people, so for us taking in the feeelings and trying to become that person from another country must surely be the most difficult challenge but I hope too the biggest compliment to that country that anyone can ever do?
I find too that to have you explain things like you have is recognititon and in itself a compliment to what we are trying to achieve.
My biggest hope is that we will always be seen to be promoting and highlighting the good that was achieved (and naturally it would not be honest if it did not in some ways highlight the suffering) and the work that so many put into it.

Michael,

That's an interesting insight...

Does your "we" extend to Ukrainians, Belorussians, Georgians, Uzbheks and Khazaks etc?

I noticed your web page mentioned Serbs and I understand the history of long term deep brotherly love between Russia and Serbia that goes back many centuries, but what about the others?

Our own nations history doesn't really have the same experience to enable us to feel quite in the same way about our past. Although today we seem to have (on an albeit much smaller scale!) rising nationalism in Wales and Scotland, whilst I do hear people start to say "It wasn't the British/English who did XYZ, it also included Welsh and Scotish people", what we don't hear (maybe just not yet!), "Wales defeated Nazi Germany", or even allowing for a little more time to pass "Scotland smashed Napoleon at Waterloo".

Anyway, coming back to Russia, the whole Russian Nationalism/Patriotism thing I can never quite work out - is it truly what it appears to be, or is it a reaction to the non-Russian elements that have broken away (or tried to or expressed a desire to)? What I mean is that is the movement genuine and spontaneous amongst the people or is it manufactured to try and glue what is left together and prevent more seperatism?

Don't get me wrong, I am convinced it is probably in Russia's best long term interest to keep herself together, but I wonder about if what is happening is genuine grass roots level desire, or manufactured somewhere in Moscow.

Something else I meant to ask you and not even slightly concerned with the above questions... You say you were an officer with the Red Fleet... I am very interested in the 1945-1991 period of the Soviet Armed Forces. Can you tell me a little of your career? When did you join, when did you leave and what did you do in that time? What rank did you achieve? There is not much written in the West about Soviet naval life in the post-GPW period. I'd love to hear about it!

Andy

Andy,

I am very much grateful to you and to other forumers here for your interest and for your questions.
I will be trying to respond to each question, God permitting, in due course of time, as profoundly as I can.

Meanwhile, I invite you to pay attention to a portrait of Hero of the Soviet Union, Major Caesar Lvovich Kunikov, posted on my website on LINKS page: http://www.russian-victories.ru/links.htm

Kunikov was the first hero of whom I learned in my childhood when I was a boy of 5, in 1955 in Novorossiisk. It happened so that we boys of the 50s used to "play war" just in the real trenches that were left by the legendary Kunikov's marines. He was killed in action right there -- in THOSE trenches -- in 1943.

Well, Kunikov was 100 per cent a Jew by blood. But we Russians consider him to be our real Russian Hero. He was an absolutely dauntless warrior. Perhaps, by telling you this short story I have responded -- partly -- to your question about the Ukrainians, Belorussians, Georgians, Uzbeks and Kazakhs, etc., etc., etc.

To be continued . . .

Regards,
Michael

Andy,

Your words: ". . . is the movement genuine and spontaneous amongst the people or is it manufactured . . ." stuck fast in my mind for the whole day today.
I was trying to guess what exactly you call "movement", and if we suppose there is one, how could it present any problem.
To love one's native land, as it seems to me, is a natural feeling, isn't it?
I doubt if a feeling like that can ever be manufactured, say, by the Kremlin. It is our inborn quality.
Although, perhaps, simply I cannot catch your idea correctly.

If you mean my concentration mainly on the Russians, almost without mentioning other nations, again this is natural. The matter is that the topic of my both websites is peculiarities of the Russian ethnic character. Because I am a Russian myself, so I have got a vision of life and possess a mindset similar to those of other Russians. I do perceive things and comprehend events around me in the same way as millions of my other Russian brothers and sisters do.

Nothing surprising that I have been writing about what I have known better. If I were a Kazakh, most likely I would have been writing about the Kazakhs, you see. But I am not one.

And what is more, after a long time of research, comparisons and examinations, I have come to a conclusion that our Russian vision of the world differs from that of other Europeans. Not better, not worse, I emphasize, but we are different in many aspects.

Indeed: you must agree with me in that, say, a Chinese differs from a Japanese, or a German differs from a French. This is not as if one is better than the other, or vice versa. Of course not. They are different, and that is all. Agree?

Every day, regularly, I read via Internet quite a number of articles about Russia published by the mainstream Western mass media, and I have noticed that 95 per cent of their articles about my country are negative. In international spheres mutual misunderstanding, deliberate or not, begets misinterpretation and may lead to serious, even dangerous mistakes.

For example, in each of the European capitals that Napoleon used to conquer one after another in close succession, everywhere he was met with submissive respect and obedience.
It was only we Russians who refused to dance to Napoleon's tune. If the Corsican Ogre had been aware of the peculiarities of the Russian national character, and of the dire fate of his Grande Armee, perhaps, he would have changed his suicidal plan to invade Russia.

Absolutely the same story repeated with Hitler. Agree?

Which is why I have come to a decision to do what I can, namely: to create websites so that to share our Russian vision and views with as many of our foreign counterparts as possible. So, help us God!

Regards,
Michael

Hi Michael,

Some interesting thoughts here. One of the things we as reenactors of the RKKA sometimes struggle with is the mindset of the Soviet (hehe!) people we attempt to act the part of.

If we were to attempt to portay Japanese or Chinese people we would know for sure at the start that these people were not the same as us. However, by and large Slavic people (and I use that term whilst not disrespecting the non-Slavic Soviet People!) look roughly the same as Western Europeans (or should I say, "similar") and so some imagine that everything else will be the same. It is both the challenge and the enjoyment of reeanacting what we do for many of us know the Slavs are as different from us in many ways as anyone on this planet. A lot of people on this internet forum spend a lot of time struggling to get our heads around it, because in doing so it is possible to explain things to our audience which seem improbable to the Western mind.

Anyway, back to this:

Your words: ". . . is the movement genuine and spontaneous amongst the people or is it manufactured . . ." stuck fast in my mind for the whole day today.
I was trying to guess what exactly you call "movement", and if we suppose there is one, how could it present any problem.

Ahhh ok, "movement" in this sentence means "a general tendency or current of thought, opinion, taste or action, whether organised and conciously propagated or a mere drift" (thats from the Oxford English Dictionary btw )

Does that make sense to you? I suspect it doesn't make sense to some of my English speaking Comrades

Ok, so is Nationalism wrong? I think it can be and certainly in English (and I mean English, not British or United Kingdom) politics "nationalism" usually goes hand in hand with racism. I think this is not untrue in other countries too.

Three of my favourite quotes on the subject:

"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind." –Albert Einstein

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" –Samuel Johnson

"Nationalism is power hunger tempered by self-deception" –George Orwell

To love one's native land, as it seems to me, is a natural feeling, isn't it? I doubt if a feeling like that can ever be manufactured, say, by the Kremlin. It is our inborn quality.

How then, did the Soviets replace this with loyalty to the Soviet Union? Or didn't they? Was it only the VV MVD and KGB that kept the lid on it?

Although, perhaps, simply I cannot catch your idea correctly.

Maybe, sometimes I struggle to understand myself

If you mean my concentration mainly on the Russians, almost without mentioning other nations, again this is natural. The matter is that the topic of my both websites is peculiarities of the Russian ethnic character. Because I am a Russian myself, so I have got a vision of life and possess a mindset similar to those of other Russians. I do perceive things and comprehend events around me in the same way as millions of my other Russian brothers and sisters do.

I used to assume that everyone around me thought the same way that I do, that's fairly normal, but I know its not actually like that now.

Very few people think for themselves, most are flock animals. At the head of the flock are the shepherds with their sheepdogs nipping at the heals of the sheep, these direct the flock in this direction and that....

Stand back and look at it and you will see what I mean. The ideas we hold of how the world looks, are they our own reached by logical thought or just repeated because everyone else says that is how it is?

Maybe that's my major criticism of nationalism is surpressing the idea of independent thought? Just an idea I thought of while typing that!

And what is more, after a long time of research, comparisons and examinations, I have come to a conclusion that our Russian vision of the world differs from that of other Europeans. Not better, not worse, I emphasize, but we are different in many aspects.

I would 100% agree with you there. Not better, not worse, just very different. I think we cannot make value judgements like that anyway, because we are measuring things by our own cultural values - there is no wrong or right, just the way we have been brought up!

Indeed: you must agree with me in that, say, a Chinese differs from a Japanese, or a German differs from a French. This is not as if one is better than the other, or vice versa. Of course not. They are different, and that is all. Agree?

Yes, definitely, in fact I said something similar up the top of this very post.

Every day, regularly, I read via Internet quite a number of articles about Russia published by the mainstream Western mass media, and I have noticed that 95 per cent of their articles about my country are negative. In international spheres mutual misunderstanding, deliberate or not, begets misinterpretation and may lead to serious, even dangerous mistakes.

I and many of my Comrades again 100% agree with you on this point. I fail to understand why this should be, it makes no sense to me. Daily I attempt to explain to people the stories we see about Russia and how our media are wrong... trust me, that makes me few friends in certain quarters! It is sad that people cannot open their own eyes and work things out for themselves. On the other hand it shows how powerful the media are...

For example, in each of the European capitals that Napoleon used to conquer one after another in close succession, everywhere he was met with submissive respect and obedience.
It was only we Russians who refused to dance to Napoleon's tune.

Oh I think like ~140 years later there was another country in Europe who didn't fancy being bossed around by a midget

Which is why I have come to a decision to do what I can, namely: to create websites so that to share our Russian vision and views with as many of our foreign counterparts as possible. So, help us God!

An admirable goal, but I'm not sure if you have managed to get the point across... Hopefully by now you can appreciate I am very pro-Russian but if I with my open mind think your words come across "the drum beat of a new militaristic Russia bent on world domination" (as our lovely media would say), then possibly the tone is wrong?

By the way, what if my own country (or any other), also had a rapid rise in pride of our history, a chest thumping belief of our past military glory and a belief that we were God's chosen people? Is this not the stuff that wars are made of? A strong belief of "right" leads all sorts to do all sorts of stuff that leaves millions dead. Not good, and I don't care who is responsible - my country or any other!

It is a unique position you are in, I have never seen such a website in English before. I have seen plenty in Russian (and Serbian!) but never in English.

Your English is very good, your use of the detail and emphasis is much better than I have seen even very skilled non-native English speakers use before, I am very impressed! Where did you learn English like that from?

I'm still not sure that your grasp of English *or* our differing cultures is what causes the misunderstanding, but I think its definitely there on your web pages.

Sorry about the length of this message! I've enjoyed typing this!

Andy

*edited to get the bloody quotes in the right places!*

Andy,

I have really enjoyed reading your answer!
What you write is most interesting, reasonable and helpful to me.
Thank you very much! We shall continue our discussion, God permitting.

Now, I need a piece of advice from you personally, Andy, and from other Comrades-in-Forum here, from all those who are interested.
I am going to share with you my personal recollections about the way of life in the USSR. I hope it may be interesting for many Comrades here on the Forum.
In this regard, do you think I should continue writing just on THIS thread, or maybe I should better start a new thread, for example, entitled: WHAT WAS THE LIFE IN THE USSR, or something of the kind?
Thank you in advance.

Special thanks to you, Andy, for your praise of my English. I am a "perfectionist" and I would always try to do my best in everything. Unfortunately, it frequently happens so that I see my spelling or grammatical mistake only too late, when it cannot be rectified already. Although I love foreign languages very much, and especially English, -- nevertheless, it will remain for me a foreign tongue for ever, alas . . .

Have a nice day, Folks!
Michael

Hi Michael,

Yes, please share with us your picture of life in the Soviet Union, I for one would be very interested to hear what you have to say.

I have spoken to many former Soviet Citizens but its such a big picture more information is what I desire.

Please, start another thread and tell us as much as you like!

I would be very interested in particular about life in the Red Fleet and how your English skills were arrived at...

Cheers!

Andy

Respect to all of you, Folks,

I have just started a new thread, entitled What was the life in the USSR like.
Welcome!

Your opinions, suggestions and questions will always be much appreciated.

Perhaps, when reading my recollections you may sometimes feel surprised, pleasantly or not, or even disappointed a little.
I see my task in providing you with a true insight. And that is all.

Good luck to all of you!

Michael